Airline Pilots, Copilots, and Flight Engineers
Pilot and navigate the flight of fixed-wing aircraft, usually on scheduled air carrier routes, for the transport of passengers and cargo. Requires Federal Air Transport certificate and rating for specific aircraft type used. Includes regional, national, and international airline pilots and flight instructors of airline pilots.
šKey Responsibilities
- ā¢Use instrumentation to guide flights when visibility is poor.
- ā¢Start engines, operate controls, and pilot airplanes to transport passengers, mail, or freight, adhering to flight plans, regulations, and procedures.
- ā¢Work as part of a flight team with other crew members, especially during takeoffs and landings.
- ā¢Respond to and report in-flight emergencies and malfunctions.
- ā¢Inspect aircraft for defects and malfunctions, according to pre-flight checklists.
- ā¢Contact control towers for takeoff clearances, arrival instructions, and other information, using radio equipment.
- ā¢Monitor engine operation, fuel consumption, and functioning of aircraft systems during flights.
- ā¢Monitor gauges, warning devices, and control panels to verify aircraft performance and to regulate engine speed.
š”Inside This Career
The airline pilot commands aircraftānavigating flights, managing systems, and transporting passengers and cargo across distances that define modern aviation. A typical trip involves preparation, flight, and recovery. Perhaps 40% of working time involves actual flight: operating controls, monitoring instruments, managing navigation, executing takeoffs and landings. Another 40% involves preparation and proceduresāreviewing weather, calculating fuel, completing checklists, coordinating with crew. The remaining time addresses training, administrative requirements, and crew coordination.
People who thrive as airline pilots combine technical mastery with calm judgment and the responsibility that passenger safety demands. Successful pilots develop proficiency across aircraft systems while building the decision-making that non-routine situations require. They must remain focused through long flights while staying alert for the critical phases. Those who struggle often cannot handle the irregular schedules that airline operations require or find the extended periods away from home unsustainable. Others fail because they cannot maintain the consistent performance that flight standards demand.
Airline piloting represents elite aviation, with pilots operating sophisticated aircraft carrying hundreds of passengers across continents. The field serves commercial aviation globally. Airline pilots appear in discussions of prestigious careers, transportation, and the professionals responsible for the safest form of travel. The profession attracts those drawn to aviation and the unique lifestyle it offers.
Practitioners cite the flying and the compensation as primary rewards. The actual flying remains rewarding regardless of experience. Compensation is excellent at major airlines. The views from altitude are spectacular. The technical mastery is deeply satisfying. The respect for the profession exists. The travel benefits are substantial. Common frustrations include the lifestyle and the path. Many find that years away from family accumulate. The seniority system controls schedules and routes. The training and certification requirements are extensive. The medical certification creates career vulnerability. Regional airline years often precede major airline positions.
This career requires extensive training and Federal certification. Strong technical aptitude, judgment, and health are essential. The role suits those with passion for aviation willing to accept lifestyle tradeoffs. It is poorly suited to those wanting home every night, uncomfortable with extensive training requirements, or with disqualifying medical conditions. Compensation is excellent at major carriers after seniority is established.
šCareer Progression
šEducation & Training
Requirements
- ā¢Entry Education: Bachelor's degree
- ā¢Experience: Several years
- ā¢On-the-job Training: Several years
- !License or certification required
Time & Cost
š¤AI Resilience Assessment
AI Resilience Assessment
Default: Moderate AI impact with balanced human-AI collaboration expected
How much of this job involves tasks AI can currently perform
Likelihood that AI replaces workers vs. assists them
(BLS 2024-2034)
How much this role relies on distinctly human capabilities
š»Technology Skills
āKey Abilities
š·ļøAlso Known As
šRelated Careers
Other careers in transportation
š¬What Workers Say
43 testimonials from Reddit
I just bought a plane and have 0 flight hours
I have wanted to fly for years. However, life has gotten in the way, building my business, chasing kids around the state for sports etc. I have gone up 3 times with a buddy. I bought a hanger lot, 3 min away from my house. Traded some engineering for flight lessons I never cashed in on (the cfi I excited I am finally doing it). Anyway this was on an auction site and buyer backed out. My buddy called me and let me know it is an estate deal widow selling. 40 hours on the engine, in current annual really nice interior. Paint is what it is. It just so happens my son (16) is taking a flight elective at his high school and wants to fly also (and now my wife and daughter 13 want to also). Tomorrow we are going to run it up with the cfi, check for leaks etc. he wants to take it up by himself after that to double check everything. Fired up.
My student tried to end us, literally!
**TL;DR: Student, who isn't keen on me, pulled the mixture mid-flight. I saved it. We landed. He will never fly with me nor with anyone else in my flight school, possibly in all of Canada as well.** Apologies for the click-baity title but I couldn't think of a better one. Yesterday I was flying a routine circuit with a student Iād been working with for a few weeks, one who had made it fairly clear through attitude and body language that I wasnāt his favorite instructor. Still, I approached every lesson with the same professionalism, hoping to build trust through consistency and safety. We were on the downwind leg for the runway as usual, abeam the numbers, just beginning to discuss the pre-landing checklist just like we did before many times in preparation for his solo flight. I was mid-sentence about configuring for landing when I noticed his hand abruptly go for the mixture and said "I'd like to see you recover from this!" and before I could react, he pulled it all the way out. The engine sputtered instantly. I took control immediately and pushed the mixture back in while simultaneously verifying throttle and carb heat. The engine caught again, thankfully without issue. I stayed calm, kept the aircraft flying, and executed a quick approach to land. I asked him, calmly but firmly, āWhy did you pull the mixture?ā He shrugged and muttered something about āwanting to see what would happen.ā I knew better it wasnāt curiosity; it was deliberate! After we landed and taxied back, and I quickly got out of the airplane and fast walked to our chief pilot's office. A colleague met me halfway because he saw us having engine issues, I briefly explained what happened and he confronted the student. Obviously he denied everything. After we all cooled down, the student, our CFI, my colleague and I sat down in his office and while at first he denied everything, it didn't take long to confess that he did do it on purpose because he was tired of being instructed what do to, and I kid you not, especially from a woman. He was promptly dismissed from the school and flagged as well. Never in my life would I have though something like this happen. I'm OK now and fortunately the weather is awful today and will be for tomorrow as well so it will give me a chance to decompress and regroup. I'm just venting a bit here because I know most of you will understand. **Edit: Thank you for all of your responses. I've read through all of them and I am considering my options. Right now, I'm OK and at peace of what happened. The aforementioned student has been expelled from our flight school and new safety measures are in place. For now, a report has been made to CADORS. Our CFI and owner told me to take a couple of weeks off but I think one week it'll be enough. Thanks again for your comments, I'll take this as an experience and will move forward on it.**
Engine failure with student yesterday
My first real emergency in 800 hours. After departing for a routine training flight, my student practiced the āABCDā checklist for an engine failure. Gave him back the power and we headed for a nearby field to practice ground reference maneuvers. Enroute the engine started running rough. Adrenaline immediately caused training patterns to kick in. My student opened up the engine restart and forced landing checklists and went through each item line-by-line while I diverted to the nearest airport. We managed to climb slightly before the engine started running rough again, then eventually fully quit. We climbed enough to be within glide range of the airport should we experience complete power loss. By the time landing was assured, the engine had quit completely. We made the runway and had enough momentum to taxi clear of it. My student thought the whole thing was a nasty joke until I called my supervisor. No training beats the real thing, but it was good enough to keep us out of the news. Happy memorial day!
It infuriates me to see the Endeavor FOās name being dragged through the mud and questioned by people that have never operated an airplane before.
Iāve already seen countless posts and forums about how the FO of flight 4819 was not qualified because of their gender. I couldn't imagine having an accident and having my pictures and certs posted all over the internet and have uneducated nobodies try to amount my entire flying career to nothing and claim I was hired without the proper qualifications. I donāt even want to bring DEI into this, this should be about just not being assholes and waiting for the investigation to come out. None of us are impervious to mistakes. I hope the FO can get the support she needs from family, friends, and the pilot community. Yes the crash was bad and she may or may not fly again, but to post someoneās face on online forums and mock them is just not necessary. My main point is why donāt we please just wait until the final report is released before we bring out pitchforks. As a pilot community we need to stand together and support each other. Until all facts come out no judgement, and when they do come out to see them as a learning opportunity that could happen to any one of us if we aren't cautious and diligent.
Well, Iām a twin owner now.
Made a huge jump in aircraft ownership as of yesterday. Iām now the owner/operator of a 1979 Cessna 340A. As I continue to build flight time and multi time, we were looking to upgrade to an aircraft that my mother and sister (both of whom are not very fond of flying) would feel more comfortable in, as well as something that had a good chunk of useful load with full fuel. The 2004 Turbo 182T that we had was fine for just me, and it got me through my CSEL and across the country, but it wasnāt something the rest of my family was comfortable flying in, nor did it even have the useful load to support them with any significant amount of fuel. Fast-forward to mid-2025, and we started exploring various other options, including single engine turboprops like the Meridian, Malibu Jetprop, or 210 Silver Eagle. We decided we eventually wanted something with two engines for added safety when flying over the Rockies, the Sierra Nevadas, and the Cascades, as well as pressurization and known icing capability. King Airs were out of our price range and operating cost, as were the larger piston twins like the Cessna 421. Nor did we even need something with that much excess capacity. We then looked at the Cessna 414, Baron 58P, and the Cessna 340A. 414 was great, but again, still a bit much access capacity that I know I would never use, plus an expensive repetitive wing spar AD. The P-Baron was also cool, but cramped (and the airframes and wings are life-limited to 10,000 hours). Eventually, we decided the 340A would be perfect. After a lot of searching, we ended up finding an opportunity with a fantastically well-kept 1979 340A. Just over 6000TT on the airframe, RAM VI 335hp engines and MT 4-blade composite props with <300 hours on both, vortex generators, a refurbished interior, new deicing boots, and a full glass panel - Dual G600TXIās, GTN 750NXi/GNS 430 backup, GFC600 autopilot with rudder bias, GI 275 standby attitude indicator, BFG Stormscope, Keith electric air conditioning, and a new set of CiES fuel senders. This aircraft was also selling with a fresh annual. As to be expected from someone who is hovering at just under 600TT and 28 multi, insurance is, for the time being, eye-wateringly, *soul-crushingly* expensive. I also have to do 50 dual with a qualified instructor. However, we all knew going into it that twins are money pits. I absolutely love how this aircraft flies, and managing the fuel system as well as the temperamental TSIO-520-NBs isnāt that bad at all once you get used to it. My instructor is very impressed with my ability to handle the plane thus far, and heās looking forward to completing my insurance requirements. Iām making sure to be a complete sponge and soak up as much knowledge as I can about operating this aircraft, because I absolutely do not want to become a statistic.
I caught one in the wild
I was filling out apps yesterday in a Caribou coffee store (a coffee chain in Minnesota which is better than any other coffee chain because its from Minnesota). While doing this, I noticed a Delta captain in uniform come in and sit down with his drink at a table near mine. Well, here I am filling out applications, might as well get some hiring news straight from the horse's mouth, so I go over and start talking to him. I ask if he knows if Delta is hiring and I tell him that I'm a regional airline pilot. He doesn't seem to hear that last bit, and tells me that if I study hard and apply myself that I, too, can be an airline pilot like him. Oooookay, he's a lil deaf, so I tell him that, no, I'm already a pilot, I fly for Air Wisconsin. He kinda gives me a blank look, like he's never heard of air wisk*yahn*sin, and then just says that yeah, if I'm willing to fly international that I'll be hired quickly because nobody else wants to do it because their girlfriends get jealous. This surprised me, not just because of the unbidden and weird advice for my love life but also that Delta was easy to get into. I said wow, I sure will sir! He goes on to mention that flying charter for the vikings was interesting but they are rude to the other passengers, which should have been another warning sign because an NFL team sure as shit doesn't fly with other passengers. I finally twig to something being wrong when he says "flying international is interesting when they refuel you in flight." "...Delta refuels in flight?" "Yeah, the military does it all the time..." "I knew that, but you're saying that DELTA airlines refuels its international flights MIDAIR?" "Oh yeah, they do for the long flights. Especially for countries that don't really get along with the U.S." At this point I'm taking a good look at his uniform. He has a pilot shirt, I recognize the brand, his epaulets seem kosher, he's wearing a lanyard with what looks like a Delta card in it, he's even got a little gold Delta pin in his tie. HOWEVER, I just now realize that his wings above his left pocket are THE PLASTIC WINGS YOU HAND OUT TO KIDS ON AN AIRPLANE. And then I notice things like 'wait a minute, I'm nowhere near the airport, why is this guy wearing his uniform?' and 'he's in uniform but where's his submarine commander hat and pea coat, its freezing out there'. And then I realize holy shit, this guy is LARPING AS AN AIRLINE PILOT IN HIS LOCAL COFFEE JOINT. We've got a case of stolen airline valor down at caribou and its not the airport caribous so there isn't a discount or anything, this guy is just doing his thing and I fell for it for like three whole minutes.
Chartering company plane for retirement
how often is this done? says it cost him a years salary so must have been a huge amount. does seem like a cool way to end a career though.
3 months PPL, 16 years A&P and had the most interesting day flying ever
On a 1 mile final into PHNL and caught this amazing shot. Sorry for shitty pic, little hard to take a good pic on final. But this wasnāt even the most interesting part of the day. Just got my PPL 3 months ago. Last week I flew to Honolulu to renew my medical, and took my wife for her first ever flight with me. During takeoff airspeed seemed to be coming up slow, near mtow for a 172 and I began flying at 45kts indicated. First thought is did I forget to retract flaps after preflight? Nope flaps full up. Kept nose down nervous of stalling but I āfeelā fast. Look back at airspeed-both steam gauge and digital failed. Dashed or a negative speed shownā¦. F*ck. Glance down at iPad and ground speed is up to 85kts so I climb a bit to avoid the construction barrier. Declared emergency and kept that throttle in. Told the wife not to worry. Declaring emergency was a āformalityā (meanwhile sh*ttin my britches) because itās a 8g11 crosswind and trying to read my ground speed at a quick glance is difficult. Obviously landed safe. Screamed it in at 85kts just to be safe. 7000ft of runway, so plenty of distance to float it down. Pulled up to owners hangar. He is A&P and IA, Iām an A&P. Knew it was simple pitot blockage. Had been heavily raining past few days. Blew line out, yup big āol slug of water was in pitot line. Cleaned pitot drain hole, tested, and jumped back in. Wife was real champ. Being around A&Pās for several years she had no fear and jumped right back in the plane with me. 45 minutes later and headed back to Honolulu. That delay then gave us the coolest damn site Iāve ever had from a plane. On a 1 mile final passed right over top of this submarine headed into Pearl Harbor. One hell of a day for sure.
ATC to pilots... Thanks.
I want to thank various airlines for supporting us. Controllers all over say that Flight schools and FBOs have been very thoughtful. We aren't going hungry at work. Thanks.
Iām almost 30, still in a C172 making peanuts, and today just broke me
Iām so fed up with this industry right now. I have been a flight instructor for years, grinding in beat up little C172s for about twenty thousand a year, watching my twenties fly by while trying to build a career that feels like it keeps slipping out of reach. I am the most senior instructor at my school with more sign offs than anyone in our history, which somehow means I get handed every problem student, every headache, every āthis one needs a miracleā case. Today pushed me over the edge. My solo student managed to violate the Class Bravo. I mean, I told him the altitudes to avoid. But, whatever it happens sometimes. But instead of doing the standard thing and grabbing the phone number to call after he lands, he decides to turn off the transponder and dive like he is flying an escape maneuver. You are in a C172, not an F22. They can still see you on radar. Everyone can still see you. Why would you make it worse? Like seriously man, I am just so tired. I am almost thirty, flying old trainers for pay that barely covers groceries, while twenty year olds are walking straight into Delta and posting about it like it is nothing. Or going on vacation to Europe or French Polynesia. Oh look youāre having a kid now too and running a marathon. Donāt get me wrong I am happy for them, but it is hard not to feel like the universe skipped me. I am tired. I love flying, but days like this make me wonder what I am doing with my life.
Best way to celebrate 1500 hours
Flew GA into SFO. The flight school was here for an event, so we got to taxi around the terminals. Quite the difference than our local Class D, as we now had to keep the speed up and manage the complex taxi. First time here after hitting my 1500 hours, which was a unique way to mark that milestone.
Pilots and LEGO enthusiasts, your thoughts?
Hey there pilots! I hope you donāt mind me sharing something a little different. A while ago, I put together a LEGO Technic model of one of my all time favoritesāthe Cessna 185ā**with working flight controls** for both fun and educational purposes. Some friends encouraged me to submit it to LEGO Ideas, the platform where fan builds can be considered for official sets ([link](https://beta.ideas.lego.com/product-ideas/db425ae2-e531-4e0e-aa62-01b8d942c00d) or just look up "Cessna 185 Skywagon"). To my surprise, itās gotten more support than I ever expected, and itās now about 5,000 votes away from LEGO actually reviewing it as a potential set. If that sounds like something youād like to see come to life, Iād be truly grateful for any support. Your vote, share, and good vibes are all heartfully welcome! Thanks for taking the time to read this, and my apologies if itās not your thing. Wishing you clear skies and smooth landings!
The hardest conversation I've had as a flight instructor so far: telling a dedicated student that he doesn't have it.
**TL;DR: Student with 100+ hours and 5 instructors still couldnāt solo. I told him he didnāt have what it takes. It devastated him and had to explain it again to his parents.** I had one of those moments recently that I think every flight instructor dreads, and itās still weighing on me. The student in question is a good kid, dedicated, punctual and studious, and with plenty of funds, basically the perfect combo! Heās logged well over 100 hours of dual instruction (closer to 200 actually!) yet has never soloed. He was given to me by his fifth instructor. From the beginning, I tried to give him a fair shot, wiping the slate clean and approaching his training as if I knew nothing about his history. I wanted to see for myself what was really going on. But it didnāt take long for the truth to show itself, basically after the third flight. No matter how many times we repeated the fundamentals, I've never saw any coordination, situational awareness, or basic control skills needed to be a safe pilot. Circuits were inconsistent, airspeed management slipped constantly, and his ability to process what was happening around him in the air just wasnāt there. I could correct, coach, and demonstrate, but the connection never stuck. For example, there was no roundout or flare on approach, he fixaxes on the airspeed indicator ignoring everything else and, worst of all, freezes when encountering mild bumps in the air. On the ground he's a totally different person with knowledge almost up to par to a CPL student but in the air, completely the opposite. After a couple of weeks of trying, I had to face reality: this wasnāt just a case of a slow learner, or someone needing a different teaching style. This was someone who simply did not have the aptitude for flying. I spoke at lenght about him with our chief instructor and asked him if it would be OK to tell him the truth. He agreed as if he already wanted me to ask him that. Guess I was chosen for that job from the start. Sitting him down to tell him was brutal. I chose my words carefully, but thereās no way to soften that kind of truth. I explained that I didnāt see him being able to safely progress toward a certificate. The look on his face when it hit himā¦ it was absolutely devastating. He had poured his time, money, and heart into chasing this dream, and here I was telling him it wasnāt going to happen. Never have I seen a man's heart broken in two like that. I thought that would be the end of it, but a few days later his parents called me directly. They were confused, even a little upset, and wanted to understand why I had come to that conclusion. I had to go through the same explanation again: over a hundred hours, five different instructors, and still no solo. If that doesnāt speak for itself, nothing will. It wasnāt just about slow progress, it was about safety. Letting him continue would have put both him and others at risk. Fortunately, they agreed. I offered different paths in aviation that he can explore and could be as satisfying as flying. I wanted so much to tell him that in person and wanted more to retract what I said but I knew in my mind it was the right decision even though my heart wanted otherwise. This was hands down the hardest conversation of my career because if my instructor came down with this one, it would've broken me in half. Now I'm worried that I might have sent this gentleman straight to therapy because I've recently told he's been very depressed, hopefully he doesn't come to that.
I flew 1500 Miles in a Cessna 152 - Here's what I learned
**Intro / Trip Summary** I just got back from a six-day, 20-leg, VFR cross-country flight covering over 1,500 miles in a Cessna 152āwith a licensed pilot friend. While planning this trip, I struggled to find first-hand accounts or detailed write-ups from people who had done something similar. So now that I'm back on the ground, I wanted to share a full debrief: what happened, what went smoothly, what didnāt, and what Iād do differently next time. **Personal Background** Iām a 22-year-old engineering student at a university in Southern Ontario. Iāve been fascinated by aviation since I was a kid and always knew I wanted to become a pilot someday. But with no family background in aviation and limited exposure growing up, it didnāt feel like a realistic path at first. That changed in high school when I took an aviation technology class, which essentially covered the PPL ground school. By the end of the year, we even had the chance to write the private pilot written exam. Once I started university, I got a part-time job loading bags at Billy Bishop Toronto City Airport (CYTZ), and used that opportunity to enroll in the flight school there. I earned my license toward the end of 2022 and had about 110 hours logged before setting off on this trip. **Overview: Why We Did This Trip, Aircraft & Equipment** The deeper I got into general aviation, the more I became drawn to the freedom that Part 91 flying offers. The idea of taking a multi-day, road tripāstyle journey in a small plane started to sound more and more appealing. The opportunity came when a friend of mine bought a 1980 Cessna 152 to build time. The aircraft is pretty barebonesāwith just the standard six-pack and a Garmin GNS 430 as our only piece of glass. For backup navigation, we had ADS-B In feeding to an iPad, which gave us the magenta line and real-time traffic. Together, weād already done a handful of $100 hamburger runs and had visited most of the airports in Southern Ontario. So we figured: why not take it further and expand our flying into the United States? # How We Planned the Trip & What We Wanted to Accomplish The main goal of the trip was to go sightseeing over New York City. Iād read about the SFRA and, after digging deeper, realized that while itās a cool experience, the *Skyline Route* offers even better views of Manhattanāso we planned to fly both. Since we had a few extra days to work with, we decided to stretch the trip down to North Carolina to land at First Flight Airport. Flying into the same spot where the Wright Brothers made history felt like the ultimate bragging right. In a perfect world, the trip would take four days of flying. Weād clear customs and head to NYC on day one, fly the Skyline Route, and wrap up the day at Essex County Airport (KCDW) in New Jersey. Day two would start with the Hudson River SFRA, followed by a scenic flight down the Atlantic coast to First Flight Airport (KFFA) in North Carolina. Then weād take two days to make our way back home, stopping at an airport somewhere in central Pennsylvania along the way. In the end, the route formed a rough triangle: Toronto ā New York ā Kitty Hawk ā home. # Dealing with CBP (Briefly)... Iāll keep this short since it probably wonāt apply to most people reading this, but for anyone planning to cross the border: there are plenty of YouTube videos that walk you through the process step by step. One key requirement before entering the U.S. is submitting an eAPIS form and calling the CBP port of entry to secure landing rights. In my case, I ran into a bit of a bureaucratic headache. The first agent I spoke to denied my landing rights because he insisted I upload three separate documents into just two text fieldsāwhich, of course, isnāt possible. He told me that if I couldnāt āfigure it out,ā heād continue to deny every future request I submitted. Thankfully, when I called again the next morning, a different agent reviewed the exact same request and approved it without issue. In my opinion, the system shouldnāt be this inconsistent or dependent on who happens to pick up the phone. # Sightseeing NYC - Skyline Route **āā**We departed our home airport near Toronto around 9 AM, and clearing customs at Buffalo was quick and straightforward. Since I did most of my flight training at a Canadian airport equivalent to Class Bravo, and I had done plenty of prep for flying into Class C airspace, the radio work felt familiar and manageable. Splitting duties also helpedāa lot. I handled the radios while my friend focused on flying, which simplified the workload.Ā We continued east, cutting across New York State over the Finger Lakes and south of the Catskills. Approaching NYC from the west, we aimed a bit further north up the Hudson and stopped at Orange County Airport (KMGJ) to refuel. We landed around 4 PM and decided to wait for the sun to get lower on the horizon to catch NYC in that golden-hour light. We ended up departing around 5:30 PM. Ideally, we wouldāve waited even longerātiming our Statue of Liberty fly-by with the sunsetābut since neither of us has a night rating (Canadian PPLs donāt include night flying by default), we had to wrap things up before dark. After takeoff, we headed south and joined the Hudson over Highland Falls, just south of West Point. I wanted to try for the Skyline Route, so I called up NY Approach. Crickets. Tried again. Still nothing. Iāll admitāI felt pretty deflated, especially when I could hear her talking to the big boys and just ignored me. Flying over Central Park and down the East River was high on my list. But then I remembered: I could try LaGuardia Tower directly once we got closer. Approaching the Alpine Tower, I called up LGA Tower, explained our intentionsāand to my surprise, we were immediately told: "Cleared into Bravo. Proceed down the East River via the Central Park transition." It was absolutely stunning. The sun was casting golden light across the skyscrapers as we flew alongside them. As we turned south down the East River, we were instructed to climb to 2,000 feet. My friend was flying while I managed the radio and snapped photos. Somewhere over the East Village, Manhattan juts eastward toward the river, and apparently we drifted a bit off track. LGA quickly reminded us to ākeep it over the river.ā In situations like that, itās best to just acknowledge, apologize, and move onāeveryone appreciates humility. We were handed off to Newark Tower as we crossed the Brooklyn Bridge and continued south down the Hudson at 2,000 feet. Upon reaching the north shore of Staten Island, I contacted the tower to drop below the Bravo shelf and transition into the SFRA. Clearance was granted. That evening, we circled the Statue of Liberty three times. It was peaceful, surrealāand somehow, we were the only aircraft in the pattern. To slow us down, my friend even dropped 10 degrees of flaps. After soaking in the view, we continued up the Hudson, making the standard SFRA callouts, and ended the day at Essex County Airport (KCDW). # Flying the Hudson SFRA the Next Morning The next morning, we departed KCDW and headed northeast toward the Tappan Zee Bridge, then turned south to re-enter the Hudson SFRA at 1,000 feet. This time, things were *much* busier. I was flying this leg and working the radio while my friend was tasked with taking photosābut he ended up glued to the iPad, scanning for traffic on ADS-B instead. As we circled the Statue again, now at 900 feet, we spotted *six* helicopters orbiting at 600 feet; first on the ipad, then out the windows. That scared the living sh\*t out of me. Not wanting to make the national news, we climbed up and continued circling at 1,000 feet. After one more lap, we decided weād gotten enough of the viewāand enough of the adrenaline. **Communication, Busy Airspace, and Flight Following** Now that Iāve done more flying out of non-towered fields, I get how some pilots can go years without ever talking to ATC. But for this trip, we made the decision to request flight following on any leg longer than 40 miles, as an added layer of safety. At first, I figured the main benefit of flight following was emergency-relatedāif something went wrong, I could key the mic and be instantly in contact with someone, without scrambling for frequencies. And of course, it helps with traffic separation and reducing the risk of mid-air collisions. But what I came to appreciate most was how much more comfortable it made me when operating near or through controlled airspace. For example, on our way back north, we flew over Norfolk, Virginiaāa corridor packed with five different airports along our route. Being on flight following meant I didnāt need to worry about initiating contact with every single facility along the way. I could just fly, knowing two-way communication was already established. When it comes to talking with ATC, it all goes back to something I was told by a veteran Marine pilot I met on this trip: āIf you talk like a big boy, theyāll treat you like a big boy.ā Staying professional and confident on the radio really does make things smoother. **Weather Delays:** Flying north toward home, our flight path took us out of Tappahannock Airport (KXSA), heading northwest. Looking at the weather, I knew we werenāt going to make it to our planned destination in Winchester (KOKV). I also wasnāt comfortable with the idea of scud running through the mountains, so we decided to cut the flight short and land at Shannon Airport in Fredericksburg (KEZF) instead. By the time we took off from KXSA, clouds and rain cells were already moving in. Once airborne and with updated ADS-B weather, we spotted a red cell to the southwest. Iāve heard the saying, āgreen gets rid of the bugs, yellow chips the paint, and red starts removing parts,ā so I wanted nothing to do with that cell. About five minutes into the flight, we realized it was moving perpendicular to our route. After some rough mental math, we figured we could beat it to our destination and land before it crossed our pathāso we chose not to turn back. Fortunately, we made it with margin to spare. By the time we joined the pattern at KEZF, the skies were blue again. Although the weather never deteriorated to IMC, our windshield did get wet as we flew through light showers. We ended up grounded in Fredericksburg, Virginia, due to lingering weather. We arrived in the afternoon, and the forecast looked poor for the rest of the day and the following one. The third day, however, showed promise. I had friends in the area who came to visit, and the two days passed quickly. On the night of the second day, while checking the forecast for our planned departure, we noticed a 17-knot crosswind on takeoff and gusty conditions expected all the way home. To this day, I still canāt believe I told my friend, āIāve flown in worse.ā That right there is why accident rates spike for pilots with 100 to 300 hoursāclassic Dunning-Kruger effect: you donāt know what you donāt know. Iām grateful my friend convinced me to rent a car, drive to DC, and depart a day later. I take pride in being a safety-conscious pilot. Since earning my license, Iāve been an avid listener of podcasts like *I Learned About Flying From That* and AOPAās *There I Was*, and Iāve watched every Blancolirio video ever posted. I know itās always better to be on the ground wishing you were in the air than in the air wishing you were on the groundābut in this case, āget-there-itisā crept into my thinking. **Aviation Community and the Help We Received:** The airport courtesy car was something I had never experienced beforeāand itās truly one of the gems of the GA world. Since airports are often located a bit outside of town, many offer courtesy cars for transient pilots to drive into town for food or errands. We ended up using this privilege twice, and it made our trip significantly smoother. I hope future generations of GA pilots use these cars responsibly, top off the gas tank with a few bucks, and help keep this tradition alive. I donāt know if it was because our aircraft stood out with a Canadian registration, but we had a lot of people come up and talk to us throughout the trip. More than once, we were asked, āDid you actually fly that thing down from Canada?ā Conversations with fellow pilots often led to helpful advice. At Orange County Airport near New York City, a pilot confirmed the procedures for flying the Skyline Route and the East River Transition. At Shannon Airport (KEZF) in Virginia, a pilot in his 1960s pickup truck pulled up and offered us a ride into townāwithout us even asking. And when we experienced engine trouble at First Flight Airport (KFFA), a Bonanza pilot walked over and helped us troubleshoot the issue. Iāve heard people talk about how special the GA community isāhow itās an exclusive space where knowledge is shared and help is freely offered. On this trip, I experienced that firsthand. As more people join this community, I hope we continue to uphold that spirit: being kind, generous, and helpful to one another for generations to come. Lastly, I want to express my gratitude to the air traffic controllers who helped keep the skies safe. As I mentioned earlier, we picked up flight following on any leg over 40 miles, and every time, we were granted our VFR request. The only exception was NY Approach, who didnāt respond when we requested the Skyline Routeābut thatās understandable given how busy that airspace is. I know it adds work for controllers to gather our aircraft type, altitude, destination, and then hand us off to the next facility. So I truly appreciate the coast-to-coast radar coverage and the willingness of controllers to provide flight following to a little Cessna 152. A special shoutout goes to the towers at LGA and EWR for coordinating the Skyline Route, East River, and Central Park Transitions. After returning home, I saw on the news that EWR was facing significant delays due to a runway closure. Yet, their tower still accommodated our request and allowed us to fly in their Bravo airspaceāan experience Iāll never forget. **Technical Delays:** After our overnight stay at the Wright Brothers National Memorial in Kitty Hawk, we planned for a short-field takeoff from Runway 3, mindful of the power lines at the departure end. During the run-up, we experienced a significant RPM drop on the left magneto, and the engine ran noticeably rough. We immediately knew flying wasnāt an option. We shut down and called Dare County Airport (KMQI), located just across the Roanoke Sound, about seven miles away. The staff there took my number and said theyād contact a local A&P mechanic on our behalf. About 20 minutes later, I got a call from the mechanic. He was working on another aircraft at an airport 50 miles away but said heād come over as soon as he wrapped up. Sure enough, around 30 minutes later, a Cessna 172 landedāand out stepped the A&P. We tried running the engine at full power while leaning aggressively to heat the cylinders and burn off any carbon buildup, but it didnāt solve the issue. The mechanic flew back to his home base to retrieve tools and a couple of spark plugs. Once he returned, we pulled off the cowling and removed the four spark plugs associated with the left magneto. One of them was heavily fouled, with significant carbon buildup on the electrode. Rather than clean it, we opted to replace the plug entirely. The fix didnāt take long. Soon, I started the engine and ran a mag checkāthis time, the left magneto only showed about a 100 RPM drop. Problem solved. **Things I Would Have Done Differently:** **Planning for Headwinds:** We got lucky on this trip. We had a 15-knot tailwind on our flight from near Toronto to New York City, and another 10-knot tailwind on the return from Northern Virginia. Not only did the tailwinds increase our ground speed, but they also allowed us to climb higher, helping us harvest better winds and gain altitude margins for safety. Hypothetically, though, if the winds had been reversed, Iām not sure we would have made it to our destination on time. On future trips, Iāll pay closer attention to wind forecastsānot just for flight time estimates, but for their broader impact on safety, fuel range, and alternate planning. Strong headwinds can turn a well-planned flight into a fuel management problem very quickly. **Get home/there itis:** There were two clear instances of get-there-itis on this trip. The decision to race the storm to KEZF was influenced in part by knowing I had friends in Fredericksburgāand by the fact that KXSA felt isolated. Additionally, during a call with Flight Service 90 minutes earlier, I was told that local conditions looked okay. But it's important to remember: the briefer is on the ground, and weāre in the air. They canāt see what we see, or feel what we feel. Also, it is important to remember that the information is 90 minutes old, and that the weather is dynamic. Next time, Iāll consider their input, but remember that the final decisionāand its consequencesārests with the Pilot in Command. Iām also disappointed in myself for seriously considering a takeoff with a 17-knot crosswind. Yes, Iāve flown in worse, and I probably could have handled it, but thatās not the point. Just because you *can* doesnāt mean you *should*. As a low-time pilot, I need to be vigilant about my decision-making and constantly remind myself of the Dunning-Kruger effect: I donāt know what I donāt know. The goal isnāt just to handle challenging conditionsāitās to make good enough decisions to reach 300 hours safely one day. **Check them NOTAMS** On our flight from Accomack County Airport (KMFV) to Currituck County Airport (KONX), I forgot to check the NOTAMs before departing. I only discovered that the airport had no fuel after tuning in to the AWOS frequency before landing. Thankfully, I had planned conservatively and had more than enough fuel to reach the next airport 40 miles awayāwith a 30-minute legal reserve *in addition to* my personal 45-minute minimum. Still, it was a preventable oversight. Next time, Iāll make checking NOTAMs a non-negotiable part of every preflight. **Flying Right After an Annual** Winter weather in Ontario kept me grounded for months. To prepare for this trip, I flew with an instructor and had the aircraft go through its annual inspection. But when we spoke with others along the way, we kept hearing the same advice: itās not a great idea to launch a long cross-country flight right after an annual. In hindsight, I agree. Next time, Iād fly the plane locally for a whileādo some laps around the pattern, take it on a few short hopsājust to shake out any post-maintenance gremlins before committing to an extended journey.
Bought an Airplane and Never Flyā¦ Why?
I finished my private pilot certificate in August after a nonlinear 5 years of training. I had instructors quit, airplanes quit, the world quit (Covid), schools close, and more in my process of obtaining my certificate. Medical was a breeze, training, when it happened, was a ton of fun, I passed everything with flying colors (pun fully intended) and walked away a pilot with a cast of new friends. Immediately did my tailwheel endorsement. Have some seaplane time. Aerobatic training. I was all about flying once I made the time for it. I shopped for an airplane for those entire 5 years. Once I had my PPL in had I pulled the trigger on a beautiful, restored, 1947 Cessna 140 with a boatload of STCs. It is about as cool as a 140 can be. However, since I purchased it I have only flown it once. I did my insurance required time with a CFI. Had a fresh annual completed on it. Fixed every discrepancy on the aircraft and bought full covers for it. It is 100% ready to fly and I just, donāt. The weather has been a bitch in the Appalachian mountains since I purchased it. But on the nice days, I find myself not drawn to fly. Iām curious if anyone else has experienced the same and had any input even if you havenāt experienced this.
Student pilot engine failure
I am a student pilot with roughly 8-9 hours of flight time in a C172 N/M. Have been working on clean/dirty configuration stalls and having a blast. About a week ago I did a preflight, noticed the oil dip stick was so hot I could barely touch it and the oil level seemed high/hard to read. Mentioned this to the CFI and we talked about it, the plane had just landed and the temp on the ground was 25C so no cause for concern. Log book mentioned oil was added recently. Everything looked good, we load up and continue the checks, notice the oil pressure is low but at 1500RPM itās in the green. I donāt think this is anything out of the ordinary thus far in my very limited experience. I taxi, rolling check, run up, hold short, immediate take off as there is another plane just about to turn base from downwind. Take off is pretty normal, T and Ps in the green, hit 55kts, rotate. Climb is slower than Iām use to but most likely due to temperature. After hitting 1200ft my CFI asks me to check the oil temp. Itās in the green but very high. Almost in the red, complicating this the oil pressure is fluctuating between below green and slightly in the green. My CFI calls out that he has control as this seems like a recipe for engine failure. Sure enough a few minutes later the engine started sputtering and we lost a lot of power. We gained back some altitude, and essentially made a direct line to the runway, came in high and pretty fast, CFI dumped flaps to 40 and touched down. I was blown away by how calm my CFI was. Doing checks, communicating etc. Bit bumpy but we were down. Sigh of relief. We taxi and perform after landing checks. Start taxiing back to tie down and the plane just completely dies. Had to tow it back and get a lift in a truck back to the flight school. I havenāt heard anything on the root cause, but Iām slightly nervous to fly again. Feel pretty lucky I have such a great CFI. Has anyone else experienced engine failure early on in training and any tips to overcome the nervousness? I was feeling pretty confident prior to this event.
A Culture of Learning
Yesterday a new pilot got on here and commented on how the aircraft āfeltā different on departure. Iād like everyone to notice the OP deleted his post and username, likely because of the amount of shit he received for doing something wrong. The attitude of this subreddit was toxic enough to rob future pilots of a learning opportunity. And that new pilot wonāt ask for help here again. If you were a shit-talker, you should be ashamed of yourselves and might want to think about the last time you made a big mistake. Who did you go to for advice? Did they help you work through the problem or belittle you? If they belittled you, did you go back the next time you needed help? Weāre better than this.
My first real emergency todayā¦ engine failure after takeoff in a twin
Wellā¦ after years of working as an instructor and a pilot and never having any incidents or scares, I finally had my first real emergency today. I was flying with a friend in a Beechcraft Travel Air. Helping them get comfortable in the plane. We prepared to takeoff after flying for a little while and after having done a few landings and taxi backs. We had briefed prior that if any emergency were to rise, I would take control as I had more experience in the aircraft. We started our roll down the runway, rotated and began to climb out. At about 300 to 400 feet off the runway, the left engine started to lose power before eventually shutting off. My friend instantly announced āyour controlsā to which I replied āmy controlsā as I took control of the aircraft. What happened next I can only describe as instincts kicking in. Identify. Verify. Feather. Within an instant, I knew the left engine was the one that failed. I quickly verified, feathered it and secured the engine. Thankfully, I had been teaching her the importance of airspeed in a twin engine and we were well above Vmca. I immediately pitched for blue line and began a slow climb of 100 to 200 ft/min. It was an untowered airport so I made radio calls that we had an engine failure and were returning back for the airport. In the back of my head, all I could hear was the voice of my chief pilot at my 135 job who had done a bunch of my training in the Baron: āTake your time. Fly the plane.ā We were at blue line and climbing about 700-800 feet above the field. Thereās no reason to panic. No towers nearby and no obstacles to hit. I took my time, making right turns into the good engine and set myself up to turn back and land on the opposite runway we took off from. Winds were calm. No issue there. I slowly made the large turn back, waited until we were closer to the runway before dropping gear and we thankfully landing back on the opposite runway with no issue. The airport managers came zooming out to make sure we were ok. Moral of this incident that I hope every pilot will take away from this: We fall to the highest level of our training. Never stop training and beating those emergency procedures into your head. I had thankfully just finished my 135 training at my full time job in the Baron not even a month before, so single engine procedures were still fresh in my mind. You never know when this will happen to you, keep those emergency procedures fresh. It will save your life one day. Fly safe my fellow aviators.
Congrats to my 17-year-old
Proud dad moment. My son Aric is officially a Private Pilot at just 17 years old, only 43 hours in the logbook. He is an A/B student, a JROTC cadet, works two jobs, races dirt bikes on Sundays, and still found time to chase his dream of becoming a Naval Aviator. The best part? He earned his certificate before me. My checkride is this Saturday, but honestly, watching him achieve this feels even better than if I had done it myself. Huge thanks to GOD, our incredible CFI, and my amazing wife for supporting not one but two aspiring pilots these last six months.
Hot take the regionals are awesome now
Yes at one point the regionals were poverty flying stepping stones to maybe have a good life at a major. But this isn't the case anymore. If I see another person complain that delta hasnt called them yet im gonna crash out. If you live in base at a regional, my brother in christ your life is awesome. You make a fuck ton of money for a job that is not hard even in the slightest. Your worst days are the average person's dream. So next time your dumbass thinks wHy HaSnT uNiTeD called me, click the fucking auto pilot off and hand fly your lazy ass to the marker and do it with a smile on your face. You fat fuck. If you commute get your fucking life together and move idiot. The regionals are awesome for now, maybe that will change but probably not soon Now please hire me, my sweet ass car payment isnt gonna pay for itself signed, A furloughed idiot
I passed my private pilot checkride yesterday!
Well, I finally did it! I have logged over 100 hours, so it took me a whileābut thatās ok! My first checkride got cancelled due to weather so I had to wait another month, and thankfully yesterday it was beautiful VFR conditions so I finally got it done. I also thought my DPE was very fair. The oral took about two hours and the flight portion was 1.5. I had posted here back in October asking if it was worth it to pursue my lifelong dream. I already have a steady career and was worried 33 was too old to start this journey to hopefully one day be an airline pilot. Well, I took everyoneās positive advice and just went for it. Iāve still got a ways to go but step one is finally done. Excited to start instrument next week :)
Finally landed a CFI job after 10 months and 500+ applications
Safe to say, this market is rough. Back in college, I applied to my own flight school, but they werenāt hiring at the time. I couldnāt really reach out to other locations since I had to stay tied to my college until graduation. After graduating, I started applying everywhere like there was no tomorrow. I got a few interviews, but that was about it. I was so desperate I even applied to flight schools in Alaska. After about five months post-graduation, I started to lose hope. I moved back in with my parents and didnāt really have anything going for me. Iām a CFI/CFII, but not an MEI. I tried everything, networking, connections, walk-ins, phone calls, emails, nothing worked. Iād be lying if I said I never doubted this career. Is the market getting better? Maybe a little, at least compared to six months ago. Is it still oversaturated? Absolutely. The school that finally hired me had over 150 applications and only took on 11 of us. Iām incredibly grateful for the opportunity. The biggest challenge, besides finding a job, was keeping my mind sharp and my flying skills fresh, especially with the gap in my logbook. Honestly, the best advice I can give is to just keep applying, no matter what. Youāve invested too much time, money, and stress to stop now. Donāt let this tough market beat you. Iāve added a little graph to show how many applications I sent out.
A More Realistic Timeline to Becoming a Major Airline Pilot in 2025
I see a lot of posts on here about not being able to find a job right now as a pilot - so I wanted to discuss the aviation job market and see if I could set some more realistic expectations. Iāll lay out some of my personal experiences and my own timeline to give an idea of what it was like in the aviation industry before the hiring boom of 2022. 2007 - I started flying gliders at age 14. At that time, the pilots that flew the tow-planes were making $5 per tow. Maybe doing 5-10 tows per day. 15-20 on the weekends if they were lucky. Some of these 25 year old guys had jobs at regional airlines like Mesa, Great Lakes etc, making minimum wage (likely $10-$30k/year). At the time, they said to me, āDonāt be a pilot, there is no pilot shortage. The pay sucks and itās not worth it.ā 2011 - I start aviation college. (UND, then MSU). 2015 - I graduated college, having spent the last four years getting my licenses. During that time, I flight instructed, towed gliders, flew skydivers, taught simulator courses at school, worked a part time job doing IT support. I wasnāt making hardly any money, but I was building flight hours any way that I could. I had 500 hours by the time I graduated, and I got a job at Star Marianas Air in Saipan (north of Guam). I flew there for 3 months and got an additional 200 hours. I was making ~ $30k-$50k during that time. Saipan was hit by a super-typhoon in 2015 while I was there, so after losing electricity/running water for a month, I packed up and left back to the mainland and applied at Cape Air. 2016 - Cape Air hired me with my 700 hours and I made $13/hr flying for them. I was making $15-$30k/year, but hey, at least I was building hours quickly. I flew as a first officer at Cape Air for one year, getting me up to 1500 hours at the end of 2016. 2017 - I got my ATP and started flying as a Captain at Cape Air. I was making ~ $70-$90k I flew for Cape Air until mid 2018, having brought my total flight hours up to about 2800. 2018 - Because I had so many hours of multi-engine pilot in command, I was able to get hired to fly a Citation 560 jet at a small private jet company. My salary was $75-$90k. I flew that airplane from mid 2018-2020 1.5 years, only getting 500 hours during that time. 2020 - I transitioned to the Citation X, which flew a lot more, flying from 2020 until mid 2022 bringing my hours up an additional 1300 over those 2.5 years, to a total of 4500. Salary was $100-$165k. 2022 - I had finally gotten 1000 hours of turbine pilot in command time, and my application at Southwest Airlines (who I had been applying to for years) made it through, and I was accepted for an interview. 2022 (November) - *nearly eight years* after graduating college with all of my licenses, 4500 hours, 1000 as a jet captain, I was hired at my dream airline at 30 years old (my class date was on my 30th birthday, so that was a nice birthday present). I consider myself EXTREMELY lucky for how this timing worked out. During the hiring boom of 2022, there were 60 people in my class at Southwest. Many of them were 23 years old and had never been a captain on a jet. Most of them had been first officers at regional airlines. Those 23 year olds hit the lottery. They had their choice of whichever airline they wanted, and a lifetime of airline money and benefits ahead of them. I doubt that there will be another hiring boom where the timing works out *that perfectly* for a very long time. With the huge outflow of captains & first officers from the regional airlines headed to the majors, it became clear that the regionals were struggling to keep people. They needed to incentivize their people to stay, so pay went way up. The regionals became a place that you could stay and have a *career.* The amount of money they were handing out with the hiring bonuses, retention bonuses, direct entry captains slots, etc. things were looking pretty good. The word was out, the airlines were hiring and they were finally paying a decent wage. Everyone and their mother started flight training. Many of the people going through accelerated programs were able to hop out after instructing and get straight into a regional airline. Boom, right seat in a jet, making good money, thatās a great deal. Youāre on the way to the majors in that seat. Several of these regionals had built in flow-programs to get you at a major airline eventually. However, with the influx of pilots filling these regional jobs, due to a variety of reasons, the major airlines began to slow their hiring pace. This resulted in people staying longer at the regionals and thus, the hiring also slowed. Subsequently, the market became flooded with freshly trained flight instructors trying to get to the regionals. When the majors begin hiring again (they are planning to ramp up in 2026), the slots will begin to open again. It wonāt be the floodgates like it was in 2022, but it will be more than it has been. With some regionals and ultra low cost carriers struggling, there are many more highly trained and experienced airline pilots jumping ship who are available to be hired. The last hiring window at Southwest had thousands apply, and those that were accepted for interviews had hours in the 7000hr range. It takes time, experience, grinding away - trying to get ahead any way you can, in order to make it in a competitive job market. The airlines are planning to hire again in the coming years - they have to. There are a lot of retirements still coming. So in order to make it, you need to be resilient. You need to be patient. You need to work hard, fly and get your hours. Keep an eye out for the next best opportunity and keep applying. Keep current. Take your friends flying to keep your passion alive. Always keep the end goal in sight, and know that no matter how many hours you get, or where you work, or how little money it is, you will probably *EVENTUALLY* make it. But it wonāt be easy. It wonāt be like winning the lottery like those 23 year olds sitting in a UA class, getting ready to upgrade to captain after getting their year of flying in, making a quarter to a half million dollars right away. Itās going to take years. Itās going to be a journey. So take a moment to let that sink in. I have had an incredible career already - flying around the tropical Northern Marianas Islands, to the frozen tundra of Montana, flying the rich and famous to concerts and tournaments, towing gliders, throwing sky divers & landing my dream job. Try to remember along the way that itās a journey to get to where youāre aiming for, and you may as well try to enjoy it. Seriously - make the best of it. Some of my fondest memories were from when I was making $13/hr, living in a crash pad apartment with my other poor pilot buddies. We loved our jobs and the company culture, the people, the airplanes, and each other. We all knew it was going to take a while to get to our dream jobs, but we were determined and we were resilient. Years later, we are all flying at major airlines or doing that thing we had set our sights to get to. One of my former first officers from Cape Air is currently flying weather research planes into hurricanes like she always wanted to. Be patient. Be determined. Be resilient. You are walking down the street and you hear a plane fly over, what do you do? If you answered āWell, I look up and see what kind of plane it is!ā Good. You have the passion for this - and you *will find a way* to make it work. āāāāāā Quick reality check. I have flown with several people over the years that simply had the timing all wrong. They started flight lessons back in the day, no one was hiring when they finished school. They struggled to get even flight instructing jobs. After making it to the regionals, they were stuck. Minimum wage, commuting, being treated terribly, only to get furloughed after 9/11. Clawing their way back to work, their airline goes out of business and theyāre back on the streets. They got hired on at another regional, starting their seniority at the bottom again. The 2008 financial crisis comes around and with it, another round of furloughs. Their airline isnāt looking like itās going to make it, so they change to corporate flying for some job stability. The thing with corporate flying, is that itās a lot harder than airline flying (objectively). You need to file the flight plans, clean the plane, load the bags, call for passenger transportation, etc. At this point, theyāre in their late fifties, having never made it to the major airlines like they wanted. They feel kind of stretched out thin, and at this point they know that they are just one of the unlucky ones where the timing just wasnāt in their favor. It can happen. I wanted to share this to let you know that there are extremes in this profession, just like all the others. There are peaks and valleys. You will likely fall somewhere between the lottery winners and the people that had very poor timing. I consider myself to be close to one of the peaks. Whether you just started training, or if youāre a CFI struggling to make ends meet, or a regional captain begging to get to a major - just remember: Be patient. Be resilient. Be determined. Enjoy the journey, but keep striving towards the destination. PS- for the love of God, if you are ever invited to go sailing on someoneās boat:, *no talking about airline contracts/work until youāre off the boat*
Dropping the 1500 hour rule is a gift to the airlines and a CURSE to pilots.
Letās be honest, the 1500 hours requirement is arbitrary, BUT this creates scarcity, ensuring a manageable supply of ATP eligible pilots. Dropping the requirement will flood the āarguably saturatedā market with ATP eligible pilots. Salaries will plummet and pilotsā rights will be non-existent. Donāt think for a moment the high salaries and great pilot benefits are because the airlines suddenly realized how valuable their pilots are, itās because they donāt have a choice due to market demands. Donāt forget, just a few years ago, most regional pilot pay was minimum wage. Scarcity creates value. To remain valuable, we must remain scarce. Those that want it bad enough will grind it out, be creative, make the connections, and make it happen. Lose the scarcity, and you lose YOUR value. Just my opinion. Good luck aviators.
Does this sound too good to be true, or not even close to worth it?
Iām a R-ATP qualified CFI/CFII/MEI. 890TT. 142 ME. 151 XC. 60 Night. 663 piston PIC. My thought process was to apply to this and get turbine time while the market is still pretty competitive. When hiring picks back up again, Iāll have some sort of Turbine and Part 135 experience. This job is also really convenient because itās local and I can walk in with my resume. Or should I just knock out my XC and Night requirements for the R-ATP and apply to SkyWest or NetJets?
ATP Lawsuit Settled 2025
As of April 2025 it appears that the ATP lawsuit has been settled and that all CFIās will now get W2ās and Full Benefits. I havenāt seen the Contract Agreement but a friend of mine just text me yesterday saying he was excited to not be a āContractorā and will actually be a Salaried Employee.
Pilot in waiting or Pilot?
Every now and then I skim through low hour job listings in Canada and I came across buffalo airways. Is the salary for a pilot in waiting usually the same you will be paid as a pilot when your time comes?
Whatās life like at the regionals or corporate right now ?
Whenever I scroll through this sub Iām always seeing 3+ year captains at legacy airlines talking about their 300k salary and getting 18 days off this month while getting euro trips, which is great none the less but Iām sure life canāt be as glamorous for you regional or corporate fellows ? Care to share your experience , schedule, etc at the regional or corporate level ? Are you enjoying high salary and taking 18 days off a month ?
Fresh from school, after a year of desperation and no replies finally got and passed an interview, got this offer letter, iām being screwed over right?
JOB OFFER AS FIRST OFFICER We are pleased to offer you the role of a First Officer with our Company. This letter is to confirm the offer to you and summarize the main employment terms on which we would like to engage you on. Job Title: First Officer of C208 & PC12 Contract Duration: Four (4) year Fixed Term Contract. Training Bond: A training bond of USD $20,000/- for four (4) years. Compensation: Monthly Gross Salary of USD$500. Upgrade: You will be eligible for a remuneration increase upon successful completion of training, demonstrated good performance, and meeting the requirements for a Captain position on BOTH the C208 and PC12. HOWEVER, when upgrading to the PC12 as a First Officer, there will be no change in remuneration. Probation: The company reserves the right to Six (6) months' probation period, to which during this period if you underperform or any misconduct takes place, it will lead to direct dismissal. Pension: 10% of Gross Salary to be contributed by Employer and 10% by Employee Your training shall commence in January 2025 if this official offer is accepted. However, your official employment shall commence after you sign the employment contract. We look forward to your acceptance and joining the company and further to provide a successful and impactful contribution to the continued development of the company.
Should I take a Job with less pay.
Iāve been instructing for two years, at about 1700 TT, and was just offered a job on the corporate side of the same company flying the Citation Bravo. Starting salary they offered was $57,500, and a two year training contract. Meanwhile I was offered a position as chief Instructor where Iād be making closer to $65,000, with all the added flexibility and more laid back environment of part 61 instructing. Iām looking for advice on which path is better, take the lesser pay for the opportunity to fly the jets or remain a cfi while waiting for a better charter/airline opportunity. Any perspective on this would be very helpful!
Do you think staffing stability is safety? Pay our air traffic controllers like safety depends on it ā because it does.
NATCA lists āGrand Benefactorsā for CFS 2025: American Airlines, L3Harris Technologies, Southwest Airlines, and United Airlines. If any pilots agree, please mention pay in your safety discussions at the CFS event.
Leave my awesome 91 gig or stay
Some background... I am someone who has gotten extremely lucky with my timing in this industry, started my flight training and my four-year aviation degree in 2016, finished instructing, and got my hours to go to an airline in 2021 and yes before anyone says anything I was one of those people who fell for the marketing scheme of the big college 141 flight school, but i mean it worked out. Anyway, I spent 7 months at Envoy before leaving for my current job. I currently fly a Gulfstream G600 and the 650 for a billionaire family. Living in my hometown I grew up in with one toddler and hopefully one more on the way. The family also own a Kodiak for their ranch trip, and honestly, that is more fun than the Gulfstream. I make about 215K a year from them in salary, and they also pay for my type rating and recurrent training. I usually only fly 2-6 times a month for them, and it's usually 2, not 6. They also give about a 18 days notice before they need us, and not a single time in the last 4 years have I been called on Christmas or Thanksgiving the closest thing to that was getting called on 4th of july in 2023. Because of this, I'm able to do contract trips, which for the Gulfstream pay about 9-14k a day. Last year, I was able to make as much as a legacy NB captain. If you Google my boss, you're going to see that this guy is rich as hell, which means that this job is exceptionally stable and recession-proof. More than that, this guy is just nice, like overall just a nice, caring gentleman who treats everyone with kindness, and so does his family. The thing is, I recently got a CJO with United. My dream job when I was a kid. A Legacy for God's sake. However I would have to commute. It's a 45 minutes drive to the airport plus an hour and 15 flight to the closest United Base but luckily it's the most junior so I'll be holding it out of training. I think I already made my decision but I just want to hear some more opinions. I will probably never leave my hometown so I'll probably have to commute for the rest of my carrer. Is it worth leaving a 91 unicorn for a legacy. A job where i pretty much control my own schedule and get all the holidays and days I want off. On the other side being 27 and at the Legacy isn't too bad either. The thing I'm losing out on staying is the massive 401K contribution, travel benefits, and the biggest of all, my lifelong childhood dream of flying a widebody for a legacy. Edit: What if the situation changes... Not saying I would get an offer at Delta, but I have my apps in. I live 45 minutes away from their base, which means given some seniority, I wouldn't be commuting.
Finally Got My First Class Special Issuance
2 Years, Countless Evaluations, and a Lot of Patience First time posting here, but I wanted to share my experience in case it encourages someone else whoās stuck in the medical certification process. Posts like this helped me push through, so maybe this one will do the same for someone. Since 2023, Iāve been in a battle with the FAA trying to get a First Class Special Issuance medical. Quick backstory: in 2018 I had a pretty serious concussion. No loss of consciousness, but it knocked me out of undergrad for a bit and eventually led to an anxiety/depression diagnosis. In 2020, I started Zoloft. Since then, concussion symptoms have completely resolved, Iāve stayed on the same dosage, graduated college, and started my career. Flying had always been in the back of my mind, but when I first saw an AME, reality hit: I was in for a long road to special issuance. Because of my history, my AME had me under: ā¢ CACI for headache/migraine ā¢ SSRI protocol ā¢ Traumatic Brain Injury protocol After multiple back-and-forth letters from the FAA, hereās what they ultimately needed from me: ā¢ New brain MRI ā¢ New neurology evaluation ā¢ HIMS psychiatrist evaluation ā¢ HIMS neuropsych testing (Cogscreen + full battery) ā¢ Copies of all my medical and talk therapy records It was frustrating and expensive, but I decided to stick it out. I staggered the evaluations over time so I could afford them, using my jobās salary to offset costs. By the time I got everything in order, a year had passedā¦ which meant my HIMS evaluations were no longer current, and I had to redo them. Fast forward to October 2024 ā everything was finally submitted. Then came the waiting game. By June 2025, I decided to put in a congressional inquiry to speed things up. Not long after, my MedXPress portal changed from āIn Reviewā to āIn Final Review with an Officer.ā On July 28th, 2025, I opened my portal and saw it: First Class Special Issuance granted. Iām still in shock as I type this. It took 2 years, a lot of paperwork, and a mountain of patience, but Iām so glad I didnāt give up. Now, time to start my PPL training. If youāre in the middle of your own fight with the FAA medical process: keep going. Itās slow, itās costly, itās frustrating ā but itās possible and worth it.
How much should i be paid for flying a Cherokee 235 on a salary?
I have to give the owner my salary expections next time we talk. The catch is, I would take on extra duties besides PIC. That includes, but are not limited to: ātake care of the aircraft, drive when the weather is too bad to flyā¦ā Terms used were āpersonal assistant.ā Iām a low time guy, less than 500 hours total time. Not necessarily on a rush to ATP minimums as Iām not even sure what I want to do when I get there. He said āweāll fly a lotā which would be nice of course, although thereās no way to actually tell how much a lot is. Previous pilot was experienced, charged a day rate, and was a temporary solution because this is a new aircraft. A day rate gets expensive quickly, which is why the owner would like someone that does more than flying. I donāt mind the miscellaneous responsibilities, quite the opposite, because what the owner is in interests me. Cool learning opportunity there. I just have no reference whatsoever to base my salary expectations on. Owner also asked what my expectations were for relocation assistance, from Florida. If it helps, Iād be based in GA, and median income there is $50k according to google. I would like to be compensated well enough so that, even if I do not fly a lot, I at least made fair money. If it were 100 hours a month like the other low time jobs, then Iād definitely bite the bullet and pay my dues almost regardless of compensation. For what itās worth, I havenāt met the owner. We only talked over the phone but I tend to trust him to be a good boss, from our conversation and from his social media presence. I sort of have already accepted the job in my mind, although weāll meet in-person to see how it goes, as weād be spending a lot of time together. **Iām just here to ask for inputs on what would be a fair agreement for both of us.** It seems we both donāt know. *editāfor clarity:* *Beyond the prospective networking opportunities and big money, the boss is someone I trust and respect. I post this not to figure out how to squeeze as much dollars as I can, I just want to make sure Iām doing this right.* *If i can support myself well, not having to worry about anything else when iām in that plane, thatās enough for me. We can always reevaluate later.* *NaĆÆve way to go about it? i donāt think so. Weāll see.*
Multi or Cfi?
What would you guys recommend I do next? Iām 24 years old and currently a pipeline pilot getting about 60 hours a month and Iām at 600 right now. I was working on my CFI but stopped because I got this job. Iām low on money as my pay is about 35K salary and had to move 5 hours away from home and get my own place. I do want to get my CFI for a couple reasons. First I like teaching, I was a college basketball player and I liked teaching kids at camp etc so I think I could be good. 2. I assume a future job would pick someone with their cfi cert over me with equal flight hours. And 3, there was people behind me that were training to get their cfi and have it already so I kind of just want to prove it to myself that I can go get it. However, it seems like I could get more job opportunities if I went with the multi. My end goal is to fly for a corporate gig. Thanks for the advice !
Hardest part about flying is dealing with everyday life
Sorry in advance for the downer post, don't know anyone else around me who would understand and just wanted to vent a little bit to take it off my chest. I honestly don't have any problem with stick and rudder and all the theory you have to learn. If anything for me that is the easiest part of flight school because I love it so much. But I won't lie, trying to balance friendships, relationships, health and especially finances is quite the beast to try to tackle with. Finances is especially hard, since I'm doing part time and I can't take out any loans, everything comes out of pocket for me and my salary just barely allows me to hang in there. Won't make this any longer, thank you for reading.
Itās timeā¦ Nicholas Air Job Offer
Hello yall, Iām sure youāve seen the ads online to go to Nicholas air and fly. For those of you who are current employees and or got through the hiring process or know of people who did, what was the contracts like? Overall thoughts of company in the first year of working there? Do they have posted salaries that show what the normal ranges are to go fly their airplanes as SIC and or PIC? What recommendations do you have to ask the company if you were to get hired right now?
Recent DPE Experience
TLDR - Had a run in with a DPE and now questioning life choices. My background I started flying in 1996, got my license in 1998. I never really had any desire to become a commercial pilot (airline or otherwise). Mostly because at the time, the starting salary for a newly minted commercial/airline pilot was so low it just didn't make sense. I had just graduated college and was working my first job in my chosen profession and was already making almost twice what a new airline pilot was making. Fast forward to today. I finally caught the bug, had the itch to do something in aviaiton. I wanted to do something that had at least some meaning. So, I decided the best path forward for me was to become a CFI/I. I'm too old to have a chance at the airlines, probably too old for charter or corporate too. I live in a small town with a college that has an aviation program. We also have a decent sized airport with quite a bit of training activity. Most of the instructors here are time building, looking for that first opportunity. Nothing wrong with that and I respect those that have this goal. However, it can leave a little gap in available instructors. So, I thought maybe I can fill that gap and keep a steady schedule of students. So, I made the decision to get my commercial and CFI. Do some training with some students and then move to CFII, possibly MEI later on. My commercial training I started my commercial training in the late spring early summer of 2024. Had a great instructor, fresh out of school. He may have been a young instructor but he knew his stuff and could actually fly the plane. Loved training with him. Right when we finished up all of my training, he got a job working for a school and moved away. Super happy and excited for him. I didn't feel like I was quite ready for the checkride yet. My knowledge still needed some work. I would read through the Oral Exam Guide and would be amazed at the things I didn't know or hadn't thought about. So, there I was with no instructor and no checkride scheduled. There was a local instructor that I had used before and really liked so I called him up and asked him to finish up my checkride preparation. He gladly agreed. We flew some, he quizzed me on my knowledge and we reviewed my logbooks. By this time it was early fall. He told me that I was ready and gave me the required endorsements. I contacted a DPE and we scheduled a checkride date. This DPE was super chill when talking on the phone but the list of info info required prior to the checkride was a bit intimidating. He wanted all of your eligibility info (IDs, medical, written test results, pics of logbook entries showing you've met all the requirement, etc), prior to the checkride. This actually ended up being a good thing. While gathering all the information for the DPE, I realized that even though I had all the required solo night landings, I was actually short a couple night takeoffs. This was because I would take off during the day, do some landings and call it a day. I was only focusing on landings, not takeoffs AND landings. This was literally the day before the checkride. I called the DPE and discussed it with him and we obviously decided that I couldn't do the checkride. So, now we are getting into the holiday season. Work was busy too. I ended up not getting to do a lot of flying the last couple months of the year. Not good but I'm not doing this for a career, more like a hobby. After the holiday season, the beginning of 2025, I was ready to get this thing knocked out. Unfortunately, we had some pretty crappy weather all through January and February. I think I only did one flight during those two months and that flight was to go get the required solo night takeoffs. Now I'm into March 2025. I go solo to do some commercial maneuvers and am super rusty, as could be expected. So, I got with my instructor and got some more time working maneuvers. He again tells me I'm ready and gives me the endorsements. This time, I actually feel somewhat confident. Now for my recent DPE experience In early April this year a good friend of mine recommended a DPE that he had used for his private. I call the DPE up and he seems pretty cool and relaxed. He explained his process to me and said that to get on his schedule I'd need to pay a $100 "reservation fee". I wasn't thrilled about this but said what the heck and filled out his reservation form and paid the fee. We discussed his schedule and my schedule and we decided on a checkride date in late May. About 9 days before the checkride I'm reviewing the logbooks for the plane I'm using and notice that it's coming close to 100 hour inspection time. So 8 days before the checkride, I email the DPE to let him know about this possibility. Sure enough, 6 days before the checkrid the plane goes down for 100 hour. I called the owner of the plane and he informs me that there's no way the plane will be available on my checkride date. I call the DPE to let him know. His reaction was "No big deal it happens. Just let me know when it's available again and we'll get you back on the schedule." Ok, cool. The plane is down for two weeks for 100 hour. The owner is apparently transisitioning to a new maintenance shop. I watch the schedule every single day to see when it is available again. The minute I saw the plane fly again, I email the DPE to let him know. This is where things went WAY south. The DPE emails me back and tells me that his only openings are in mid July and oh by the way, I need to pay him another $100 "reservation fee". The extra "fee" kind of upset me. I didn't really feel that was reasonable. I emailed him to let him know that I didn't feel like that was reasonable for something out of my control. Holy cow, the DPE emails me back and put me on BLAST. Tells me that it's my own fault for not knowing how to plan. I should have been more on top of the maintenance for this rental aircraft. I should have been talking with maintenance personnel to make sure no maintenance was coming up. It's people like me not showing up for checkrides that cause other people to not get checkrides. The email just went on belittling me for not being prepared. I feel like I gave enough notice that the DPE could have easily filled his schedule, if he wanted too. I honesly was livid. I was shaking I was so upset. Not sure how I'm supposed to control the hours flown or the maintenance schedule on a rental aircraft. At this point I told the DPE that I don't trust that he would provide me with a fair checkride experience and that I wouldn't be using him for a checkride, ever. Oh by the way, his policy is that for ANY reason a candidate can't make the checkride (weather, maintenance, illness, etc.), another "reservation fee" is required. So now here I am questioning my life choices. Not sure why I'm posting this but just feel like I need to get it off my chest. I'll probably regret posting but here we are. If you've read this far, thanks for reading.
King Air SIC Pay
I am in the fortunate position to be starting a King Air SIC part 135 soon. Looking to see what the current pay rates are for the King Air 200. This position will be in the Midwest. Day rates/salary are both appreciated.
Will there be an oversupply of pilots in the future?
I'm a college student in the UK currently looking into a career in becoming an engineer or an airline pilot. However I've gotten the impression that many other people my age are planning to go to flight schools and become a pilots. This is to the point that I know more aspiring pilots than aspiring engineers. I think there are so many people like this because we have heard of the pilot shortages and the huge salaries that come with this exciting career, but at the same time I am now hearing that the shortages are over and demand has decreased in comparison to recent years. I'm questioning whether in the future there will be too many qualified pilots to the point where there will be an oversupply and as a result salaries will decrease and will no longer be worth the lack of a work-life balance and the expensive training.
Pilot Apps: Fired from Former Job
I can understand if someone was let go from a āprofessionalā, maybe salaried job that it may show up somewhere, but how would an airline, or anyone for that matter, ever know if you were fired from letās say Subway when you were 21 and going through flight training?
Career Change and Getting to 1500
Would love some advice from the reddit mind....(and sorry for the 100,000th similar post) I'm 35m (almost 36) and in a well paying corporate job (Equivalent to low-mid seniority US airline widebody captain) that I have lost the love for. I am fortunate to be able to afford my own plane and can build hours cheaply. With all that said, I am considering making a career change. Assuming I start now, I estimate I would get to a mainline around 42. Though currently single, I would like to have a family one day, so the pay and QOL between now and those early career years are the biggest things holding me back, as well as the 10-12 years it would take for me to get back to my current salary. Currently VFR with about 220 hours. If you were me, would you: 1) Stay in current job and fly the hell out of my own plane evenings and weekends for all ratings except my multi time to get to 1500. I have a glass cockpit and AP so it meets the TAA regs for commercial. Maybe also pick up a CFI to instruct on weekends (but not in my own plane since it's experimental). 2) Get to CFI or CFII in my plane and then find a flight school and instruct full time the rest of the way. I would need to move to a cheaper apartment and/or city for this (LA area based currently), but CFI time is desired by airlines. 3) Do #1 without CFI but only until 750 or 1000, and at which point find a job hauling freight or similar that gives turbine time until 1500. 4) Skip it and do what my hangarmate suggested: just keep flying for fun but with a different corp job.
Q&A: My students are curious about your occupation
Hello everyone! I am a teacher, and my high school students in TĆ¼rkiye are curious about your job. Could you help answer some of their questions? 1. What are the biggest advantages and disadvantages of being a pilot? 2. How do your working hours lookāare they regular or unpredictable? How does this affect your personal life? 3. How does the salary compare across different stages of your career (first officer, captain, senior)? 4. Whatās the difference between being a pilot in TĆ¼rkiye and in other countries (e.g., Europe, US, Middle East)? In terms of pay, schedules, or work conditions? 5. How much training and money does it take to become a pilot in your country? 6. Whatās one misconception people often have about your profession? 7. An interesting fact you'd like to share? Thanks in advance! Your insights will be shared in my classes so my students can better understand real-world careers in aviation.
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Work as a Airline Pilots?
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